Episode 36: Interview with Limor Bergman Gross
How might your job be influencing your well-being? Could the secret to optimal health lie in career satisfaction? Tune in to today's episode to uncover some intriguing insights.
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Show Notes:
Part 1:
Introduction of Limor Bergman Gross, a leader in tech with over 20 years of experience.
Discussion on balancing a fulfilling career and personal life for women.
Importance of time management and setting priorities.
Transition to remote work in 2016, benefits of flexibility and reduced commute.
Impact of trust and transparency in the workplace on work-life balance.
The evolving nature of workplace flexibility and the role of employers.
Part 2:
Exploration of the subjective nature of remote work productivity.
Mental and physical health as a priority, especially for women in professional roles.
Emphasis on self-care and incorporating healthy habits into daily routines.
Financial stability from career growth and sensible money management.
Avoiding the trap of living beyond means for societal approval.
Common career mistakes women make, including neglecting financial education.
Part 3:
Focus on the importance of self-promotion and personal branding in career advancement.
The need for women to advocate for themselves in the workplace.
The significance of persistence and not accepting 'no' as the final answer.
Limor’s current work in coaching women in tech leadership.
Insights into being an entrepreneur versus working in a corporate environment
Key Takeaways:
Balancing Career and Personal Life: It's possible for women to have a fulfilling career and a rich personal life, but it requires effective time management and setting clear priorities.
Remote Work Flexibility: Transitioning to remote work can significantly improve work-life balance, but its effectiveness varies based on individual preferences and work habits.
Health and Wellness: Prioritizing mental and physical health is crucial, especially for women in high-pressure careers. Incorporating healthy habits and self-care routines can improve overall wellbeing and productivity.
Financial Stability and Management: A successful career contributes to financial stability, but it also requires sensible financial management and living within means, rather than for societal appearance.
Self-Promotion and Advocacy: Women in the workplace should focus on self-promotion and advocating for their achievements and needs. Persistence in these efforts can lead to career advancement and fulfillment.
Entrepreneurship vs. Corporate Employment: The freedom and autonomy of entrepreneurship come with unpredictability and challenges, but can offer a more personally tailored and rewarding career path.
Transcript:
Welcome back to Better Than A Pill.
Today, I'm so excited to have Limor Bergman Gross here as a guest for women.
It's a pleasure to be here today.
Great. I'm so excited to have you too. And today we're going to be talking about how having a fulfilling career plays a significant role in the overall health and wellness of women. So we're going to get started and just want to kind of ask you a little more, a little bit about how you, you know, your story and how you got involved in doing the work that you do.
Thank Mm hmm. Yeah. So, in very, very brief, my over 20 years career was in tech, started as an engineer and grew into leadership positions. Along the way, I got married, raised a family of four kids, and moved countries. So I moved to the U S and we moved back to Israel. So I made a lot of changes. And along the way I found a passion of mine, supporting women in tech, started mentoring, found that they love it.
And I get good feedback. So eventually, you know, over the years that led me to what I'm doing today to coaching, uh, mainly women in leadership roles. Oh, that's awesome. And there is such a need for that because I'll tell you, um, myself that tech is not. A strength of mind. So I admire, I admire that, you know, just being able to, to, to do that.
There's so much involved in that, but you took it to another level as well. So it's not just women in tech, but women in tech within the leadership realm. Yes, that's true. Yeah, that's awesome. So, so in your experience in, in doing this work, and, you know, being involved in obviously raising a family, um, switching countries, which is no small feat and, and, you know, maintaining a career, you know, at a personal level and what you see around you as well.
What are some of the biggest things you see women struggling with when it comes to having a career? There are many things. I mean, I think if we're talking about, um, family, a lot of women struggle with how it is, how, or is it possible to grow a career while still investing in their personal lives, family, raising kids, you know, can we have it all basically?
And the answer is yes, yes, we can have it all. It doesn't mean that it doesn't come with a price. Meaning, right, right, I mean, you can do all, you can be successful, you can advance your career and have a family. I have four children, not a small family. So you can do it all. But usually there are prices to pay along the way.
And I did pay some prices along the way. So it's all about. Priorities, how you spend your time being very effective with what you spend your time on. But you can do it all. Mm hmm. Yeah. No, what you just said resonates with me as a woman with a career in, in, in, you know, being an entrepreneur and, and, and doing that, it's like time management right there.
That has to be a key, a key factor, right? And, um, and just speak a little bit about, cause I know that, you know, you, you said it doesn't come with a price. Some of the things that you found as maybe things you encountered your roadblocks along the way. So when I started my career, I was working on the off, I mean, AB actually until 2016, I worked predominantly in an office setup.
So I was committing every day, which was rigid, right? I mean, I had to be in an office approximately nine to five. I mean, in Israel hours, sometimes even, even longer. But it was rigid, which meant that I almost never picked up my kids from school, so I had to pay a price. Fortunately, nowadays, things are shifting and there is more flexibility.
And I've seen that since starting working fully remote in 2016. Finally, I had flexibility. Finally, things didn't have to be black or white. Finally, I could decide how I spend my time. And I wanted flexibility. I could pick up my kids. I could help them. And again, it's a preference. I prefer to do that. Well, a little bit, maybe kind of mushing around my personal life and work.
So when you have flexibility, sometimes it means that you have less, you know, clear borderlines between your work hours and personal hours. And I know for some people it's very important. So it's, it was my personal choice, but that's one example of, you know, some struggles I had and obviously pregnancies were a big one for me.
And usually I had to make a choice. What do I do now? If I want to have another child, sometimes it means that, well, maybe that's not a good time for me to switch, switch a role, switch a job. I think that is changing too. And a lot of employers are more open even to hiring women that are pregnant and it's less of a barrier, but I think it's still a barrier.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Those are great examples. And I think that. You know, I like what you said, I mean, it is a matter of preference and being able to have that flexibility because I know I prioritize my kids. Um, and in fact, I love my work, but me personally, they rank above that, right? In my mind. And so, so having that balance because you still want to be able to contribute to the world with the gifts that you're given.
Um, but yeah, so that battle, I can totally understand. Um, it just sounds like what, you know, you reach that flexibility for yourself. What, um, was it the shift in the work environment that provided the flexibility or, or, or expand a little on that? Yes, absolutely. I'll be happy to. It was, um, a combination.
First of all, the work environment is dramatically different working 100 percent from home. I did travel quite a bit back then, but I still, I mean, when I was working, you know, when I was not traveling, I was at home, which allowed me to, first of all, remove commute time. So I saved two hours a day right from the start and also allowed me the flexibility.
The second aspect was a high level of trust. And from my manager, but also from the organization, which allowed me to be very transparent about my schedule, everything was there on my calendar. I didn't hide anything. For example, I had regular hours a day that I would block for picking up kids from school and driving them from school.
If I had a parent-teacher conference or important meeting at school, I would block my calendar in the middle of the day, and I would put it there. Parent, teacher, con, or whatever it was, that level of transparency and trust allowed me that flexibility without feeling guilty. I love that, you know, and it's different, like in a sense on my end, I do that, but I'm reporting to myself, I run my own business, right?
So I can block those in. But to have that level of trust, um, reporting to a company, putting that in there, but they see, they trust you because why, eh? You are obviously being productive and you are contributing to the company, right? Exactly. And you're still able to, to, to cater and help your children, which is, that's awesome.
That is so good. And so I guess it would make, you know, in a standpoint, you know, the remote aspect of being able to, to work from home is a win win and just, especially as a woman, a woman, that's a mom. Right. Um, and also the company. Plays an important role in that, you know, allowing you to, to make those priorities.
Right. That's correct. And I think one of the challenges that I see at least is that companies sometimes have problems, employers have problems trusting their employees. And I know that some people take advantage of this, but as an employer, and I can share that as a manager for so many years, it's very easy to know who is performing well, who is.
Overperforming well, you know Shining and who is underperforming, even if you don't see those people and they work from home, you notice that it's very easy. And, uh, and I think that trust has to be there and also being very clear on what you do with underperformers. You know how many companies I work for that prefer to avoid.
And not deal with that, and that sends a very, very bad message to everyone. So when you deal with the underperformers, you take a stand, you do whatever it takes to help them. And if not, you just move them out. It sends a very clear message. What are your standards? And you just keep the ones that are, you know, trustworthy.
Right, right. And that's being shown in the work you do, holding your commitments, regardless of, you know, if it's, if you're a mom and you're also factoring in times to pick up your kids, you're still, they can see that they're aware versus somebody that's going to, we're always going to have, like you're saying, the people that are taking advantage of the system, um, they're not showing up, they're not producing.
And, so would you rather have a mom that factors in time to pick up her kids, but it's really committed and responsible and you have the trust and it's producing for the company, right? I mean, absolutely. And, it doesn't have to be just moms, right? I mean, dads want to be there for their kids as well.
And some people take care of their elderly parents. I mean, or God forbid, you know, someone's sick. In the family, there are so many other circumstances than just, you know, taking care of kids that companies that allow that flexibility. Will eventually profit from that because they will keep the good employees and, and those employees will stick around because they'll appreciate that level of support.
Yeah, that totally makes sense. And it, and what you're seeing is that it is shifting and we're seeing more and more companies adapt to doing this, right? Yeah. Yes, it is shifting. Not all, not all companies. I mean, I also see companies who have problems with that. And now you know that we don't have the pandemic anymore.
I see at least here in Israel, many companies trying to go back to the office and kind of the week. So it depends.
Yeah. And it, when it comes to the remote aspect of work, I mean, just off the top of my head, I would think that you could be even more productive from home. Like you just said it, you're cutting out commute time and you can apply that into your work day. Yes. But that is also personal and subjective for me.
Absolutely. For many people I know, yes, but some people really need, I know, you know, we have friends. Um, that, uh, we visited over the summer and, uh, they live in the U S and what the, the woman, she works from home. She loved working from home. The man always worked from an office that is most productive.
He likes that separation, that clear separation between home and work. And he needs this structure and having the office set up in order to work. So it really, really depends. I know that when I worked with motor people, the company really lacked social interaction and they wanted to have an office set up and meet people.
So I think there is no one answer that fits everyone. Yeah. That's a great point. Yes. A hundred percent because having, having the ability to step out or having, if you're used to being in an office setting and that's where you're most productive, that totally makes sense as well as being able to connect.
There's value in being able to connect with people in person. Yeah. So this is great so far. So tell me, so, you know, when it comes to, um, having a career, let's talk a little bit about some of the mental health aspects. Let's just look at that piece first. Absolutely, yeah. So, as women and mothers, we tend to put ourselves last.
That's what I did. Which has a toll. A lot of stress and not sleeping very well, not so, so take a look at your life and usually there are several aspects that you can, you can look at your sleep quality, your nutrition, how well is your nutrition, your physics, right? How active are you? How do you feel physically?
I mean, do you just, uh, Breathe very heavily just when climbing a few stairs or, or do you feel comfortable just walking a little bit, you know, so different aspects. Do you, do you worry a lot? Do you think about different things? A lot of things occupy your mind all the time. You worry about so many things.
If the answer is yes to several of those, then yes, probably you're not taking care of yourself and you need to start taking care of yourself. Thinking what do you need in your life so it can be investing in, you know, doing something for you to relax, to unwind and starting to do some physical activity, whatever you like, it can be taking a walk in the afternoon, it can be, you know, going for the gym for Pilates, whatever you like.
You know, there is no one answer and, and getting to sleep at an hour that suits you and your schedule. I know that sometimes I stay up too late, so yeah. Taking care of yourself. Yeah. So a hundred percent. I know you're speaking in my language because that, that's what I see a lot of is that, you know, as a woman, a professional entrepreneur or in business, we often neglect our health and wellness.
Thanks. And it's not, unfortunately, a lot of times until we start to experience the things you're talking about or some signs, then it's like, Whoa, you know, I need to really find a way to make this a priority. And you know, for me, it's, it's, it's easy cause I do this for a living. And so it's ingrained into that part of my routine.
And I think that, um, once a woman has that awareness. Right. Then it's just making it a habit, just like showing up for work or, or being productive at work has become a habit. Right. Would you say? Absolutely. And I really am a great believer in habits. Everything that you start doing, maybe at the beginning, it's hard.
Like for example, working out is a great example, right? It's really hard to start, but once you make it in your schedule and you do it for several weeks, it just becomes. Something you do like brushing your teeth, right? I mean, when you start, okay, every morning I make myself breakfast. So, if you start making a habit of making a healthier choice around your breakfast, maybe you slice, I don't know, fruit or whatever you like to eat in the morning that makes you feel good, then eventually it will become a habit and you'll just do it instead of having something unhealthy.
Yes. And it's like, you know, making yourself a priority to do that and exactly one habit at a time. And you'll see, see that. Yeah. So, so yeah, I mean, and that's, you know, like you're saying, you know, we combined in there, the mental and the physical aspects, but they're not separate. You know, our mind is connected to our body, right?
Absolutely. I believe everything is connected and you know, like in your experience, cause I know that you're, you're making your health and wellness a priority. And obviously you want to empower other women to do that. Um, that also affects your productivity, I would say, right? Yes. I think that, uh, when you.
Take care of yourself. You are more focused, you are able to do more. Yeah. You're able to just do more with less time. Yeah, a hundred percent. That, that's, that seems to be the case for me. And having an outlet, like for example, physical activity like you mentioned, um, does that help or, and I see this a lot with, you know, mental health aspects, just thinking, you know, if you're anxious about a work problem, possibly taking a five minute walk.
Yeah, I always joke and say that running is my therapist. So, you know, physical, physical activity is really good for mental health. And again, whatever you like to do. Some people like going dancing, whatever you like doing, which makes you feel good about yourself and makes you kind of have positive thoughts.
Do it. I love that. I like how you said that running is your therapist. That's great. Very, very cool. Let's talk a little bit about how having a career can help in terms of having financial Absolutely. So, um, obviously I worked all my, all my life and, uh, uh, both me and my husband worked in high paying jobs.
And obviously we are. Well set up. And so when you, when you invest in yourself and in your career, you grow your career, you earn money and you know how to handle money too. I mean, obviously you need to have, and this is, uh, unfortunately something we don't have. You know, we don't get in school like financial education, how to handle money in a way that you don't just chase it all the time.
And we know how to spend it wisely and save it and all that. Um, I think that when you have a career and know how to handle your finances, eventually you will, you will be set up for success. You and your family. Right. And I like what you said too. It's like there does need to be a course on that because there's, you know, you kind of have to learn as you go and reach out for support.
Other professionals I know I have, I mean, it's just like, it's not something that's talked about. Yes. Yes. And I can share that. Um, You know, even though we made a lot of money, we, we, we thought about what we spend money on and what is not really needed. And so many people around us, you know, earned less, but had the urge to buy a newer car, you know, and live in a bigger home and all about how they're.
Thinking about how they are seen, right? How other people look at them and their lives. And, and I remember people telling me, why do you keep that car? Why don't you just get a new one? I said, well, I don't need a new one. And I have nothing to prove to anyone. And so this is another aspect that they see that so many people are obsessed with how they are perceived and what others think.
Seeing them and seeing, you know, if you have a newest car or bigger home, then you're perceived as more successful. So I think, uh, maybe trying to think about, well, you don't need to worry too much about what others think of you and feel successful regardless of those external things. Yeah. So that is exactly right.
I couldn't agree more and, and that would be a mistake. I think that even if somebody could make it, if you get caught up in that, um, worrying more about the exterior and you know how you are perceived by others, um, that could lead to not being so healthy, right? In many ways. Yes. Yes. So I'm not saying that you need to be frugal and, uh, you know, not spend money and all that, but kind of find the balance, find the right balance that you live comfortably.
You enjoy, but you don't do that for the sake of what others think. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So having that, um, sense of, um, financial stability goes, goes deeper and it sounds like you, you have a really good experience to share on that. Right. Being that you have. You've been productive financially, but you've also made choices to get where you are, right?
That's true. Yeah. I, uh, I, uh, lived comfortably, but I never looked for how I can max my credit to buy the biggest house I can afford and take the biggest mortgage I can take because that's what usually people do. They try to really buy a level above their means. Yeah. Instead of living within their means.
Yeah. Yeah. Good insight. Thank you, Lamar, for that. And, you know, yeah, so there's, you know, just so much, so many aspects here involved when it comes to having a career and, um, you know, that we have to think about, um, You know, that would be, you know, we're talking about this kind of, what are some other mistakes that you see women make when it, when it comes to having a career?
I know we touched a little bit, you know, now on the exterior, but what else have you seen? I think that one common mistake that women do, and I did it, I'm guilty as well, is focusing really a lot on execution and less about their brand. Promoting themselves, and we think that we just need to execute and do a good job and be humble, be quiet, and someone will pay attention and someone will acknowledge what we're doing and will be rewarded, whether it's financially or, you know, being promoted.
It does happen sometimes, but it's not a good recipe for success. And men typically have no problem showing off in what they're doing, externalizing it. Asking for more money, asking for a promotion and women less so, which eventually hurt us. So I learned along the years, not to shy away from externalizing what I do from asking for what I want and what I think I deserve on top of doing a good job and pushing.
Sometimes it was not easy. Sometimes I need to be very persistent, but think about it. What we will do for our kids, right? If your kids had some challenge at school, let's say, right? And you had to speak with the staff, with the school staff. You would do whatever it takes. To solve the problem from your child.
I know that because I've done that. I've been very persistent with anything related to my kids, but then why we don't do the same when it, what is related to us and our careers, we need sometimes to have thick skin and we heard, no, take it as not now and being persistent, being persistent about what we think we deserve, what we want, not taking no so easily.
And, uh, sometimes, you know, sometimes when odds are against us, then we need to make some decisions, okay, maybe that's not the right place for me and I need to move on, but not give up so easily. Yes, that's a great point. And, and, you know, asking if you're not receiving whatever it is, or the answer is no, I like how you said no is not now.
Yeah. Right. Cause that, that allows freedom for you to explore it later. That's great. And yeah, so I think that, you know, that would, you know, follow along in the lines of, um, you know, social health, like being able to, cause. Pursue yourself first and the relationships that you have in this, um, career that you have and who you're reporting to you're, you're being an advocate for yourself, right?
Yes, absolutely. And people will take him more seriously. When you behave like that, when you advocate for yourself, when you are persistent, uh, when you're not making it easy, right? I mean, our job is not to make it easy for our managers. If we, let's say I want to get promoted. Or I want to have a raise and my manager says, well, it's a tough time.
We don't have a budget, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Okay, we can be empathetic and understand that, but on the other hand, well, that's not my problem. I mean, I don't necessarily need to make it so easy on you and just take a step back and say, okay, whatever. No, sometimes we need people to fight for us and support us and say, well, yeah, I understand that.
But I still, you know, need to make sure that I'm being treated properly and I, you know, I'm supported. Yeah. That's great. And that's what makes you a great leader. Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of times we say, well, I don't want to, I know my manager is really good. I mean, because again, they're not bad people. I know he's a really good person.
He cares. But. Okay. But you don't need to make it so easy for them. Mm hmm. And you see a lot of women falling into that path that you described of not wanting to take that action. Yeah. Because we feel uncomfortable. We feel like, Oh, this person is so not, especially with the nice ones, right? This person is so nice.
He really cares. He says all the right things. But eventually. Well, it doesn't help me. So, we feel uncomfortable putting them in a tough spot and pushing back and basically making them uncomfortable.
And believing in yourself enough and the work that you're doing right, um, that you deserve that, whatever it might be, promotion or recognition or raise or, or whatever it might be. Thank you. Yes, you know, sometimes is it is as simple as sending an email, you know, how many times I heard women that they coach that there was something about whether it was a promotion announcement or an email about something they have done and they were not really given good enough credit and they felt uncomfortable pushing back on that.
Mm. So sometimes it's, it's even those things that, well, sending an email, what that doesn't take any, any resources, that's not money or simply writing something properly. Yeah. And that's a form of communication, right? And if, if those things aren't addressed, I would imagine, you know, they will compile and pile up and then it affects you on a, a not so good level energetically affects your health.
Right. Yeah. Affects your health and how you're perceived and your confidence. Absolutely. And so the work you're doing now, let's talk a little bit about that. You, are you on your own? Are you still working with a company? So I'm on my own. I have my own company and I, uh, help women. I also work with men, but my passion is supporting women, especially in tech leadership.
I know it's tough being there. Yeah. And so the, so the kinds of women that you're working with, when you say tech leadership, just to, to understand that a little bit more for us that don't really understand what does that involve? Usually it's middle management. So either it's a first line or second line manager can be in very technical fields like engineering.
Sometimes it's in marketing or sales doesn't have to be just. Very, our product doesn't have to be super technical and I helped them with just expanding their point of view and what they think is possible. I challenged him, right? Because if someone tells me, well, I cannot do that. I said, okay, let's figure out why, why you think you can't, because a lot of times it's in our head, all the limitations we put.
So I'm helping them break those. Inner barriers that they have and see more possibilities and get courage. I love to start kind of breaking those boundaries that they have. That is great. And so, wow. So you're sharing your experience and empowering women and, and some men, right? To do the same thing? Yes, and not always.
I super share. I'm sharing if I feel like it's needed, but typically I like to just focus on the woman I'm working with and what's. What she can do because sharing experience is valuable and nice, but not always what works for me necessarily will work for someone else. So I try really to encourage the people I work with to find out what's going to work for them.
That's empowering. Right there. Very well said then. That makes sense. And in, in this, in, in the work that you're doing, you're seeing women be able to, to, to make that shift? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I just finished a coaching relationship with someone that wanted to get a leap in her career.
And we worked on how she presents herself and what she needs to do strategically. And today she told me. Well. Now I need you to work with you on my next role because she got the job. She got a promotion and, uh, absolutely. It's not always promotion related, sometimes it's just a different way of thinking and operating that really change everything for them.
Right. Right. It's awesome. And it's, it's awesome that you are doing this now and you know, just on a side note, how do you like being in the position of being an entrepreneur versus working for a company? I can't do it any other way. You know, Carrie, after so many years as an employee, I realized that I wanted to work for my own and I wanted to break free from the corporate world, not because it's a bad thing, but it was.
The timing for me was right to, to work for my own. I love it. I love being my own boss, having the freedom, and you probably know that too, right? Having the freedom to kind of decide on my own destiny, who I work with, what I focus on, when I work, when I don't work, I need, I don't need to give anyone any kind of, uh, justifications to why I want to take whatever time I want off.
So just that's worth it for me. Yeah, it's a great freedom. Great freedom is what I'm hearing. Yes. Yes. Freedom. And it comes with a price. Yeah. Comes with a price like everything in life, right? It's less predictable. There's no predictability of a paycheck. Yeah. Very different. Because you're making that, you're making that paycheck.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, so that's awesome. This has been so great. I've loved getting to, to hear more about your work and your views. You're, it's just awesome. And yeah, so much power here. Um, all of these things affect our health and wellness. I mean, a hundred percent. This has been great.
I thank you so much for coming on today. A little more. Thank you so much, Carol, for having me. It was a pleasure. And for our audience listening today, I'm going to be including all of the more social links as well as her website in this episode. So you know how to get in contact with her. And remember, we do episodes every week on Wednesday, and I look forward to having you join me then.
