Episode #43: Interview with Cory Rosenke
What is the soul, and how does it contribute to our health and wellness? Join us as we explore the essence of the soul and its profound impact on our physical and mental well-being. Are you ready to discover how your soul shapes your life?
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Show Notes:
Introduction to Cory Rosenke:
Author, pastor, and expert on soul cravings.
Dedicated to connecting people to the joy of their maker.
Cory Rosenke's Personal Journey:
Overcame a challenging youth and poverty.
Transitioned from horse training to pastoral work through music and faith.
The Concept of the Soul:
Soul as the core of personhood, consciousness, and personality.
Importance of the soul in holistic well-being (mental, emotional, physical, spiritual).
Five Soul Cravings:
Security (physical and relational).
Identity (personal and social).
Independence (freedom and individuality).
Significance (feeling special).
Innocence (need to feel good and not guilty).
Soul Cravings and Human Behavior:
Influence on personal ambitions, relationships, and societal issues.
These cravings drive all human actions and desires.
Cory's Book "The Magnetic Heart of God":
Discusses the five soul cravings and their satisfaction through connection with the creator.
These cravings are deeper than psychology and are not biologically based.
The Ineffectiveness of Material Fulfillment:
Limitations of wealth, fame, and physical achievements in satisfying soul cravings.
Examples of Jim Carrey and Elon Musk to illustrate this point.
Therapy and Soul Cravings:
Role of therapists in understanding and navigating soul cravings.
Differentiation between biological needs and soul desires.
Concluding Thoughts:
Encouragement to see oneself as a soul, not just a physical being.
Emphasis on seeking fulfillment through understanding the soul.
Key Takeaways:
Holistic Well-Being Requires Soul Understanding:
True wellness encompasses not just the physical and psychological, but also the spiritual aspect of our being.
Five Soul Cravings Drive Human Actions:
Understanding and addressing these cravings (security, identity, independence, significance, innocence) are key to personal fulfillment and societal harmony.
Material Wealth and Fame Are Inadequate for Soul Satisfaction:
Happiness and fulfillment cannot be achieved through material wealth or fame, as they do not address the deeper soul cravings.
The Role of Therapy in Soul Understanding:
Therapy can aid in understanding the origins of our actions and desires, linking them to the deeper soul cravings.
Self-Perception as Souls Leads to True Fulfillment:
Recognizing ourselves as souls with specific cravings can lead to a more authentic, peaceful, and fulfilling life.
Transcript:
Welcome back to Better Than A Pill. Today, I am so excited to have Cory Rosenke on as a guest. And
Cory is an author, pastor, communicator, and a tenacious pursuer of truth. He is both a concept pioneer
and the foremost authority of truth. Authority on the cravings of the soul and through session, song,
worship, and manuscript, he is dedicated to the pivotal work of connecting hungry souls to the joy of their
maker.
So welcome Cory.
Thank you, Cari. I'm delighted to be here.
Well, I am super excited to have you. And today we're going to be talking about the soul, you know, what
it's good for, um, how it can have an impact on our health and wellness and all those things. But I would
just love to start off, um, with you telling a little bit about your story and how you actually became, um, a
pastor.
Oh yeah, that was a really long journey. Um, I grew up, um, Very poor and left home very early at a
young age. I left home when I was just 15 years old. Um, leaving on my own at that time, I was a horse
trainer and, um, met a beautiful lady, um, picked her up from school and, uh, got married. And early on in
our relationship, you know, I had grown up, you know, in a, in a faith filled home and she had not.
Um, but that was something that she wanted as well. And at the time it was interesting. I grew up in a
faith filled home, but it wasn't. Um, really pursuing, you know, that in any way where she hadn't, but she
was pursuing. And so we kind of thought, Hey, what kind of church should we go to? And so we just kind
of went to a local church, um, full of gracious people.
Um, I was a musician at the time. So oftentimes, uh, when you go to church, they love to plug people in,
get them busy doing stuff. Um, and so they got me doing music. And that's when I got serious, you know,
about my faith at that particular time. And, I remember I got excited about it. And so I had, uh, ultimately I
had, um, other churches that would ask me to come do music at, you know, their, their place as well.
And, um, I was just getting excited about God at that point. And so they couldn't shut me up between
songs. I was supposed to lead the singing, but I just couldn't, I just kept talking between songs. And so I
remember one pastor one day said, Hey, why don't you just preach? And so, and so that was what I did.
And that's kind of what started it all off. Wow. That's awesome. I love to hear that. And yeah, so, and that
just, um, where you, where you started to preach, you went from singing to preaching. Yep, exactly. Yep.
Wow. Well, wow. Thank you for sharing that. And, you know, I know that there are a lot of people, um,
today that are even listening on.
To our episode and everywhere that are searching for holistic wellbeing. And, you know, this includes
mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual health. So how does nurturing or understanding and
connecting to our soul, in your opinion, contribute to our overall health and wellness? Well, I think that
like you just named the areas in life that people are looking for wellness, right?
We have the physical, the psychological, um, and um, obviously the spiritual, but what often happens is
for some reason the spiritual is kind of just tagged on at the end. Right. And, um, for some people, it's
not even a factor. And so what I have really been on a mission over the last couple of years to remind
people of it, and what I'm doing is I'm reminding them of something that they already know.
I believe we already know this, and that is that more than a brain or a body, we are souls. And so any
talk of holistic wellness, you know, has to consider the fact that more than the biological, we are non
biological beings. And that is something that is not even, it's not simply a religious statement.
It's a statement, um, that I believe is as scientific as you can get. It is well documented throughout the
ages. In fact, it's only been in recent years, um, where academia has kind of begun to shun the notion of
a soul. And they've kind of put all their chips, you know, so to speak, on psychological components.
And this, this shift in perspectives. Hasn't happened because of some sort of scientific breakthrough,
right? It happened simply because of a change in culture. Um, and I think also in my personal opinion,
there's a bit of an aspect where if, if, if certain people acknowledge the soul, then they have to
acknowledge that there is a science and an awareness that is beyond our ability to completely
understand.
And for a lot of people, um, that is unpleasant to them. So they, yeah. They, to a certain degree, throw
the baby out with the bathwater. However, as you just mentioned, any talk of wholeness, holistic well
being has to start with the soul because the soul is the seat of our personhood. It's the seat of our
personality.
It's the seat of our consciousness. Um, that's why I believe it is the highest of all factors. You know, I go
out on a lot of shows. I talk about a lot of topics. Um, and yet the soul is relevant to all of them. Because
ultimately it's the core of who we are. I know there's a lot of people who might be new to the concept of
the soul or struggling with spirituality that are listening today or spiritual identity, um, and so on.
And, you know, first off, I think we should, um, Define the soul and I wanted to kind of run this by you. I
know just in my own belief, I believe the soul is, is something, it's our being, right? And I personally
separate that from the spirit. Um, and so I'd be curious, um, and I'm talking about the Holy Spirit that lives
within me and I am a Christian, right?
So, when we die, our soul does not go with us in my belief, but it is an important part of us. And so, and
so that's just, I had to throw that in there, but I, I would love for you to define it a little bit and kind of
explain, explain it, break it down a little bit for us. So from my perspective, and is. I believe that we are
three part beings, ultimately, body and mind and soul.
And as you've, as you've mentioned, the Holy Spirit, of course, um, as a believer, you know, you would,
um, adhere to the idea that the Holy Spirit prompts us and calls us toward goodness and calls us higher.
And I would agree that that is a, um, a separate thing, right? Um, when God made Adam and Eve, he
formed us out of the dust of the earth and then breathed in to us, right?
Making us a living being. And so from my perspective, I would say that I would believe that the soul is
the part of us that doesn't do it. And that's where we might have a different, maybe have a little bit
different perspective on the idea and that I believe that we are biological creations. You know, in this
physical sense, you know, we look around the room, I can see you and I can see shape and color and I
can hear tone and you look at me and you see the same thing, but we are so much more than that, you
know, underneath that we are souls created in the image of God.
And, um, so I believe that our souls are the seat of our personhood. In fact, a lot of it's so wonderful that
in today's modern world, we're finally addressing mental health issues. In fact, it's kind of come to the
forefront. It's a very big idea. However, I believe that sometimes we misclassify certain mental health
issues as strictly biological when the truth of the matter is that it's actually layered beneath that.
See, we have souls that aren't just lying dormant. You know, waiting until we die, and then they're finally
released. Our souls are the core of who we are, right? They are, they are the seat of our motivations.
Um, and so oftentimes I say we look at the world around us today, and we see a world in chaos, and we
wonder, wonder why.
How could we be the most prosperous people in the history of mankind? Which is literally what we are.
There's never been a generation in history that has experienced the prosperity that we have, right? When
you think of the access to education and wealth opportunities and comfort and leisure and freedoms, and
you know, we could go on and on and on.
No generation has experienced what we have, and yet we're more unhappy than ever. Every statistic
shows that, right? And I believe it's because we have been approaching ourselves simply as biological
beings. And you can't satisfy non biological craving with biological trappings, um, which I think is exactly
what the world has been doing.
So I believe we have a soul within us that is craving, that is reaching out. Um, we just keep trying to feed
it biological things and that is why there is such unhappiness. So in order to kind of explain to you my
perspective on, on the breakdown. And I think that, I think, I think I understand what you're saying.
And I think that. Oftentimes, we have complicated language on, um, unknowingly, you know, we just kind
of trick we've kind of stumbled into it. So when I talk about our soul, I'm talking about what some people
would call not the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of man, I'm talking about, you know, if we talk, we use
language like consciousness, or if we use language like, and the scripture is actually full of this, for that
matter, the heart, You know, we'd always talk about the heart of man, you know, and, and again, it means
the seat of the, of our personhood, right?
And so I would collect those all together and say, bringing them together, that is what I am calling the
soul, or as some people prefer, our non-biological selves. And I think that, um, viewing it in that kind of
larger capacity is the way that I like to approach it. I see. And so, you know, it's interesting.
Um, so our soul could actually, because we are uniquely made, right, we're uniquely made by our
creators could be that inscripted part of us that is being per se that is actually giving us our calling our
purpose. Um, would you say, I'm just curious, or, you know, how does somebody that can't identify you.
or connect with their soul, understand the soul better, right?
Well, I think the first part of it is, as you mentioned, coming, accepting the awareness of it. Right. Um,
and I think that this is something that is not hard to do because all of humanity, I believe, intuitively knows
we have a soul. We have to go out of our way and convince ourselves of all sorts of things in order to
distance ourselves from that awareness.
Right. I often talk about the soul in this way. I say, here's some evidence towards it for those of your
listeners that might, this might help. You know, I say that, think of this, all of humanity, Every culture
came to the same conclusion independently. And we're kind of moving into the scientific method here,
right?
Of observation and documentation and, and, and whatnot. So when you think of this, the Europeans
who believed in a soul, when they landed at Plymouth Rock, they came, and they met the Native, the
Native American peoples at the time. They came to a people in America who already believed in the soul.
Europeans did not bring an awareness of the soul.
It already existed amongst all the people here. And when Rome, who believed in a soul, the Romans,
when they landed their ships north of the White Cliffs of Dover, and Brittany, to try to conquer that island,
they didn't bring the awareness of the soul. They came to a people who already had an awareness of the
soul.
You think of all the different tribes in Africa, how big that continent is, and, and all of those different
people all came to an awareness of the soul It was not brought to them by any kind of conquering people
that that were invading their nations when you so when you think that every culture came to the same
conclusion independently, right?
That is undeniable evidence that we have a soul. Now, of course, I would say that's the reason why
there's so many religions in the world today. All these cultures had to try to kind of put a framework and a
description around what they already understood about themselves. So for your listeners who are
wondering first off about the soul, I would say, um, you have this awareness in you, that is not just a
personal awareness, it is an awareness that has gone across the world and throughout time, people
have been aware that they exist beyond biology.
And so, The awareness of the soul can, can just start with being separated from religion in the sense that
it was, it's one of our root awareness is it's one of the root, um, um, knowledge we have inside of us. And
it's only been in modern times that that's been tried to, they tried to educate it out of us, you know, so, so
to speak.
Um, and so as far as connecting with that goes, I think that once you come to that awareness, and once
you are aware that more than a brain or a body, you are a soul. And you are a soul with value, you know,
then you have to ask, okay, well, what is my soul good for? And ultimately I would break it down. And as
you already mentioned, the soul is the core of who you are.
Those dreams that are, that are being birthed inside of you. Those aren't coming from psychology. That's
coming from the soul. When you feel those, those huge offenses. You know, and that hurts from what
has happened, you know, to you or around you. That's not a psychological experience. That is a soul
experience, right?
And the reason again, why I think that was so of us, so many of us have been so unsuccessful and
actually trying to find peace in the midst of this world and chaos is because we are subscribing to
biological methods to try to soothe a non biological problem. Yeah. It's very interesting. So it's kind of like
I'm hearing.
So the soul is part of our being, right? And it goes beyond just the mind connecting to the body. It is a
level of consciousness and it's also unique to the individual, right? And that's the beauty of. Yeah, what
we've been given, right? Yeah. And so for example, um, you know, if somebody, they have their soul and
let's say they experienced pain at some point in their life, right?
They have that response, maybe a pain response to a situation that somebody else may not have based
on how they are uniquely made. Would that, would that be. Yeah. Cure it. I would say that's true. So my,
I, I post to people this, and of course I've written a book on this topic about the five cravings of the soul.
And the reason I've categorized these cravings as, as soul cravings is, is as I've already mentioned, they,
they exist sub psychology. They're, they're not simply a neuron and brain chemical issue, right? They are,
they are deeper than that. And so I have put forth five cravings of the soul that I believe are the root of all
human ambition, um, and all human desire.
And so as people, as we look around the world and we ask the question, why, which is really what
started me off on this journey, to be honest, I was one of those curious kids from when I was very little
looking at the world and wondering why. I remember as a poor kid, looking at my family, wondering why
we lived differently than other people.
I remember as a boy, sitting with my dad in the kitchen, we had, we'd sit around the radio, um, with the
first, um, Iraq war, um, and I remember just sitting and listening to what was happening. And I remember
even then, as a boy, wondering. Why? And so it was that question of why? Why is the world the way it is?
Why are people doing what they're doing that has kind of led me on a lifetime of study that has ultimately
ended up in the soul? And I didn't, so I didn't start looking for the soul, right? I started asking the
question, why? And that led me through philosophy, it led me through psychology, it led me through
neuroscience and ultimately ended up in the soul.
And so those cravings. I believe as we look around the world and we understand we try to figure out why
is that person So desperate to get married, right? Or why is that person so desperate now to get a
divorce? Or or why is that person, you know, so why is a degree, you know? a degree, a PhD or
whatever, so important to them.
Meanwhile, this person over here, you know, for them, they're not pursuing a PhD. They're pursuing
starting their own landscaping company. Why the differences between us? I say that those differences
are actually rooted in five similarities. And those similarities are security, identity, independence,
significance, and innocence.
I, I oppose these not, are not psychological cravings. These are not social cravings. These are cravings
of the soul, and they have propelled all of us to do everything we've ever done. And so not only do we
have this, uh, personal awareness when we, when we look at the soul, but it gives us a societal
awareness as well.
Yeah. So break those down again, those components. So the first craving, and again, these aren't
ranked in areas of importance or. Um, I think that they are all equal, to be perfectly honest. Um, the first
one I say is the, the sole craving for security. And when I talk about security, I break it into two parts.
And that is physical security, which we would call our will to live. You know, our survival instinct, so to
speak. Um, and relational security, which is just as powerful. And that is, we need to know that our
hearts are safe in the hands of those who hold them. And we can be literally driven to a point of
madness if this security fails.
And so that first craving is the craving for security, specifically physical and, and relational security. The
second one I talk about is identity. And again, this is a, this is a soul craving. This is not a biological
craving. It does not exist in any other creature on earth. Um, and the craving for identity asks for
symbiotic questions.
Who am I? Why am I? Do I have value? Do I have a purpose? That craving for personal identity and
social identity for that matter is at the root of so much of our ambition and our grief. And um, and again,
we can have all the money in the world. We can have high walls and a moat around our castle, but if we
don't know who we are, we're struggling with identity, we will not have peace.
It is a prerequisite to peace. So security, identity, and then independence, of course, right? And we, we,
we look at independence and again, I break into two sections, freedom. There's the freedom component
of independence, right? I need to feel that I am in some way, have some sort of autonomy. And of course,
this is why.
Prison itself is, oftentimes a, it's a punishment for people, right? The feeling that we are simply caged,
right? It is a very strong punishment against us. And so we have this desire for freedom. Um, but not just
freedom. There's also the individualistic aspect of independence. And that is, I need to know that I am
distinct, right?
That I am unique. Ah. And that there is something about me that is set apart. So security, identity,
independence, and then significance, right? We all need to know in some way that we are special. That
we aren't just set apart, but that in some way we are set above, right? For some people, for Usain Bolt
right now, he's the fastest man in the world.
That's probably where he gets part of his significance from for grandma. Maybe it was because she
thought she could make the best apple pie, whatever it is. We all need to know that we are significant in
some way. And then the fifth one being innocence. We are all craving innocence. We have this core drive
inside of us that needs to feel like we are not only not guilty.
But that we are good, that you're a good girl, that I'm a good boy. And, and when you think of it, almost
every argument you've ever had was based around your perception that someone was either directly or
indirectly accusing you of wrongdoing or wrong thinking. It could be a tax violation, a speeding violation,
or leaving your socks on the floor.
But almost every argument began because we felt like someone was accusing us. Which triggered our
craving for innocence, right? And what do we do? We either flee from them, because we can't be around
someone who's making us feel guilty, right? Or, we fight. And in that particular case, it's not a matter of
feeling completely guilty, or innocent, I just need to believe I'm more innocent than you are.
Right. So you say to me, you left your socks on the floor today. Well, then I'm like, well, you left your shirt
on the floor yesterday. You hypocrite. Right. I'm, I'm not just, I can admit that I'm a little bit guilty, as long
as I believe I'm less guilty than you are. Right. And that is really, it's amazing when you think that is the
source of almost every argument we've ever had.
So we have these soul cravings. Again, these are sub psychology. These are deeper inside of us.
Security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence. And if people are trying to understand why
they do what they do, you know, or you just think of it. Why? Why do you have friction with your sister?
Um, why are these political parties warring like they are, right?
And maligning each other the way they are, you know, oftentimes we try to overcomplicate the problem. I
can tell you what the problem is. It's boiled down to five areas. Securities, identity, independence,
significance, and innocence. They are the prerequisites for peace. They are definite. They're what we're
looking for in a love relationship with someone, right?
They are the definition of happiness and you, and here's the thing, and here, here's the tricky part.
These are soul cravings, which means by nature, they cannot be satisfied in biological places. But we
live in a world today that is trying to find satisfaction for the soul in the biological and it's not working.
Yeah. So, so, so, wow, what beautiful, um, information there, Corey, about What you define as the soul. I
mean, to me, that makes sense. I mean, physical relations, um, security, security, relationship, security.
Um, so these are things in our being that we, we are kind of craving that we. that's calling out of us,
that's, um, goes above mind, goes above psychological, that our inner consciousness, our identity.
Um, uh, yeah. Um, that makes sense. And the freedom piece makes sense. And, um, significance. I like
that for sure. Um, and then the innocence piece. How interesting is that? Huh? Yeah, well, that's
interesting because if, um, if you look at psychological textbooks or psychological, you know, um, papers
for the last 200 years, you will find the first five clearly are the first four clearly upfront.
You'll find them everywhere about the human need for security, identity, independence and significance.
They're it. They're everywhere. I am, I, I've never seen anyone bring them together as I have into these
five Caribbean, so we can look at them all in one place. Right. But you can buy a book on the human
need for significance, or you can go buy a book on the human need for identity, right?
It's well documented throughout psychological history and psychological literature. I am saying that these
are actually deeper than psychology, right? They are, they are of the soul. And the fifth one. It's what I
think a lot of people have been missing and that is that craving for innocence. And oftentimes, I don't
want to say it's bigger than the rest.
It's simply less known, which at times I think is why it seems larger. And so oftentimes the truth of the
matter is if, if your audience is wondering why they're having strained relationships with people, they can
look in these five places, you know, to identify them. And so many times that innocence is right there,
right?
Yeah. So, yeah, that, that, that hits home because like, it's like to me listening to you talk, you know, I
think about innocence and, you know, I know a lot of our listeners were coming in different angles, but
just for me personally, being a Christian, I think about that in terms of sin. Right. And so like I have.
Sinned and so then therefore I am no longer innocent, right? I am then right and so that's the freedom
that I know that I can only find in the Lord Jesus Christ, right? Well, and that's and to be honest, that's
why I titled my book the magnetic heart of God Understanding the five cravings of your soul.
Yeah, because ultimately These, there's only, these five cravings cannot be satisfied in the biological.
There's only one place that they can be satisfied simultaneously, right? And that is in connection with our
maker at the end of the day. So tell us a little bit more about the Magnetic Heart of God, your book, and
what you mean by magnetic heart.
I want to hear this. Well, I would suggest to people that, as I've already mentioned, these cravings are
not biological. They were, nor did they evolve into being, they were placed in us on purpose as a homing
device. And so that's why I called the book, the magnetic heart of God, because we all have these
cravings inside of us.
And the truth of the matter is we look at the world and they're trying to satisfy them with money. And
wealth, they're trying, some people are trying to satisfy them through control others through, you know,
manipulations through sex through, for some people, just the escape into drugs or, you know, or some
sort of mind altering substance, or there's, um, some people through philosophy or whatever they're,
they're, we're looking to satisfy these cravings elsewhere and it's not working.
And I, so I propose that our maker placed them with us on purpose. As a homing device, because there
is only to draw us back to him. That's why I called the book, The Magnetic Heart of God. If God is a
magnet, and if you picture your soul, these cravings of your soul as some sort of iron, we are being
drawn to the magnet, right?
And you had mentioned earlier, you had used the word sin, right? And how that has to do with
innocence. Well, we have inside of us, you know, um, this fatal element, you know, that, that resists the
pull back to our maker, and which constantly tries to divert us into all sorts of folly, right? Yeah. Yeah.
And places that we will perpetually be unhappy.
Um, there's a Canadian comedian named Jim Carrey. You probably heard of him. He's a silly guy. Made
a lot of silly movies. Right? Um. Yeah. A while. I heard a quote from him about three, three, four weeks
ago. He said, I wish that everybody could experience riches and fame so that they would realize that's
not the answer.
Right. Oh yeah. And history is full of people who have reached the top just to discover there's nothing
there. I actually saw an interview with Elon Musk a while ago, the richest man, you know, from what we
know who's ever existed, who's ever lived, right? And the interviewer was basically asking him, you know,
um, essentially, are you happy?
And just the look on his face, and I remember, so here's Elon Musk, the richest man, there's nothing on
this earth that he cannot have. And he looked at the interview and he said, I don't think many people
would want to be me. And it's like, wow, when you think of that, because everybody thinks they want to
be him, right?
Yeah. Oh yeah. In some way. And yet there's no amount of more when it comes to biological things or
things on earth. There's no amount of more that's ever enough. Oh yeah. Right. You said it right there.
I'm, I agree with you a hundred percent. There's nothing. And this is, this is why, you know, having you on
here today, you know, even in terms of our health and wellness, it's always been my belief that it is that
key component, what we're talking about right now, that connection to our creator soul spirit, that whole
piece there, there's nothing that trumps that.
Nothing. Nothing. No amount of money. Well, anything. Um, yeah. I mean, that's, and there's a healing
power, right? Here's a healing power right here, which is another reason why we're on. All right. And so,
so like. That's the beauty of this, right? When you tell me a little bit about you, your take on that. Yeah.
It's so beautiful because you have access to it right now, right? We have this like that, Oh, I need another
degree. I need another relationship. I need another house, a newer car. I need whatever it is so that I can
find this, this peace, this wholeness that I'm looking for. It's like, no. You, you, you will get that new house
and it won't be enough.
You will get that new car and that won't be enough. You will get that new spouse or whatever, and you
will find they are fallible and they cannot fill that void that's inside of you. And so that's the beauty of it
because security, identity, independence, significance and innocence, they're available right now, right
where you are.
Yeah. But the challenge is we have to stop believing the lie, which is so deep inside of us, right? That is, I
will experience happiness if I just get enough control, if I just get enough money, if I just feel like I've been
given enough love. And that is a lie that has proven itself over and over and over again.
And so, you can, um, have all the money in the world and not be happy, just ask Elon Musk. Or, you can
be poor, give your life in this destitute kind of poverty ridden scenario, like Mother Teresa, and be a
person of peace. But there are five prerequisites. And that is the challenge. And ultimately that's why I
believe, that's why I call it the magnetic heart of God, understanding the five cravings of your soul,
security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence.
There is only one, you have to have all of them. You have to experience satisfaction for all of them
simultaneously in order to have peace. And that's a big thing. That's why, that's why peace is so fleeting
for most of us. Like we can have moments where we feel totally secure or a season. But ultimately that
goes away, sickness comes, recession comes, whatever it is, right?
We can have, we can have moments, right? Where we feel significant, right? But again, or seasons, but
soon we age, we get injured, someone else comes, you know, whatever it is, it's broken down. So that's
why peace is so fleeting here on earth, but there's only one place where these cravings can be satisfied
simultaneously.
I mean, I just couldn't agree more and that's why we're on here today is that let's just look at, I mean, I
know this to be true for myself. I'm here, like, I'm going to tell you, it's not, it's by no mistake. Okay. You
know, but so here's the thing too, if we, you know, we're, you know, even in the work, work I'm doing
health and wellness wise, we can be extremely fit.
And extremely healthy, but so unhealthy, so sick inside, right? And I see this all the time, especially in
the world when it comes to fitness, especially when it comes to fitness, right? You know, so exercise is
not going to cure you. Nutrition is not going to cure you, right? All these things we're seeking, not to say
that they're wrong or bad, and that there can be a lot of benefit out of those things, but that's not the
answer.
Yeah, I'm a gym, I'm a gym rat myself. And I, and I can tell you that, you know, the gym is not full of
happy people. Right. And yeah, and yet, you know, I have, I have seen. I have so many clients who
have gone to therapists and they've been told, right, that the, the, the, the person is in depression or, or
anxiety, or they're just at this dark place in their life.
And the best their therapist can tell them at times is start running, right? Create endorphins, get all
these, you know, get the blood flowing, all these things. And again, as you mentioned, those can be great
and wonderful and good things. We should do those things. But ultimately, that is not the answer at the
end of the day.
And I, you know, I, I'll talk to, sometimes I'll coach couples, right? And there's conflict in a relationship.
Where is the conflict? Well, right. Security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence. As long
as, oftentimes what couples are doing is they're looking at each other. To satisfy a craving that could
only be satisfied in their maker, right?
They're setting each other up to lose. Now, I believe that we can see reflections of those satisfactions in
each other. In fact, I think we're supposed to, right? A wife should look at her husband and he should
reflect on her security, identity, independence, significance, innocence. She should reflect those things
back to him.
Right. Exactly. But ultimately we cannot be each other's source. No. Right. Yeah. That's just not, not
going to work. I know that. Yeah. I hear you a hundred percent. And so, yeah. So yeah, this is great. I
mean, I mean, this is, this is the key. And I think, you know, one thing that I'd like to mention too, cause
you know, people listening today are like, so, so how do I, you know, get in contact with that part of me?
And, and, you know, there has to be a level of. And we're all on our own journeys, right? I mean, each
one of us, right? Myself included, but a level of coming to an understanding and being able to connect to
those things at a deeper level. I know that, that, that's the work that I'm, I'm always doing. I'm doing it
right now.
I'm, I'm, you know, layers being revealed more and more, but coming to that understanding is, is a very
personal thing. And, um, I just want to get your thoughts on that, Corey, as well. Well, I would say to
people that, um. You have the awareness. It's just a matter of identifying where that awareness is
coming from.
To me, I'm going to, I'm going to use an oversimplification, a visual that perhaps will help people. It's like
sorting your laundry. You have your lights here and your darks here, right? And you have to know which
pile it needs to go into. And so when you, when you're looking at your life, you need to be able to ask
yourself, okay, I want pizza tonight.
That's a biological craving. Put that in that pile, right? Unless. Unless, and here we come, unless maybe
your dad loved pizza, right? And you feel so connected with your dad that the fact that your spouse
doesn't want pizza is offensive to you because it's not just a biological issue. Now it's an identity issue
because you want to identify with your father.
You always eat pizza on, you know, on Monday night with your father, you know, you have to ask if you're
looking at your spouse. And again, you're asking the question, why you have to start being able to look at
this framework, but you have to put the right things in the right piles, right? That whole idea of you saying
people feeling, I feel empty inside.
I feel like I'm not loved. I feel like, um, I'm unfulfilled. That's the soul. That's the soul. Oh, that's so good.
Yes. And in that identity piece, I know, like just thinking a lot of even myself is that goes back deep, like
the older we get, the further we have to go back. And that goes back to our roots like when we were very,
very small.
And connecting to that piece and understanding that piece. And that's where a great therapist can help,
even if they, even if your therapist isn't aware of the cravings of the soul. You know, because what, what
a therapist can help you do is to go back and say, so we all are propelled through life and time by the
same five cravings.
But because of our lives, because of our childhoods, we've learned different methods of pursuit, right?
Which is why there is that one person. There's this one person who, as you just mentioned, fitness,
right? They look at the world and right, and they will measure your success. They will measure their
value, the value they place upon you and how much can you best bridge?
How, how else can you, how far, how far can you run? Right. What's your BMI? Right. Right. That's what
they're obsessed with. Meanwhile, this other. And they, that was something, something happened when
they were growing up. There was some influence that came into them that they started pursuing
significance or, you know, identity or whatever, security, whatever it is through fitness.
Right. Meanwhile, there's this other person who didn't have those influences in their life. And for them,
it's about education. They look at you and go, Oh, do you have a PhD? Well, if you don't want to, I don't
want to hear what you have to say. And they literally, they look at the world and they rank people, you
know, by what education do you have, right?
You know, what was your GPA? What was your GPA? And they've developed these mechanisms for
measuring people around them through that lens of, of the cravings of the soul. And yet it's again, it's
never enough, right? And yet we've developed these coping mechanisms or these methods of pursuit
and a good therapist will help you develop healthier pursuit methods.
Yes, and there are all kinds of therapists out there, and I just want to say, too, that there are even faith
based, um, therapists out there for somebody that, you know, needs somebody within their own faith and
so forth. That totally makes sense. And I, and yeah, everything that you, that you just shared really
makes sense.
And I think that, you know, Just being with Elon Musk and, you know, at what point do we have to get
to, to, like, realize how important it is to connect to this part of us. Right? And so bringing that awareness
on for everybody today, no matter. Where they are in their journey, in their life, I think is, is really
important.
It's such an important part of our overall wellness, wellbeing, health, all those things. And so, yeah, I
mean, so this, this couldn't be a better topic. And, um, yeah, I'm so grateful to have brought you on today.
And I just want to say, thank you. Um, and also I want everybody to know that. I'm going to include the
link to this episode today for Kori's website in the book, Magnetic Heart of God, which I will be getting a
copy of, um, is going to be on the website.
So if you would like to, you can go directly to the website and, and Kori, is there any, anywhere else that.
that you want to send anybody or anything else that you'd like to share. The best place to send people is
to the website, coryrosenke.com. And it can channel people into either contacting me or finding out
where the book is available near them.
Um, you know what, if I could just kind of say a few words to your listeners, it would be this, and I just, I
just want to drive this point home. You are not the reflection in the mirror. That's not what defines you.
You aren't the number on the weight scale. It's not what defines you. Now I get into the offensive area
here.
You aren't your BMI. You aren't your GPA. You know, you aren't the diplomas on your wall. We aren't
even the color of our skin. We are souls at the core of who we are. Souls crave these five beautiful
cravings. And again, they are, the cravings themselves are not bad. Well, ultimately what will harm us is
when we pursue them in the wrong places or in the wrong way.
Right. Sure. More than a, more than a brain or a body, you are a soul. And when we actually grasp that it
will revolutionize, I believe it'll revolutionize the way you live. There was nothing that will change the
trajectory of your life faster than this. And it will show you how close you are, how close you are right
now to that peace and fulfillment, um, that you are all looking for, that we're, that we are all looking for.
It's right here, right? But it comes with us truly and authentically. Coming to that full awareness of
ourselves and then clinging to it. Because you have a world that is not there yet. So you are going to be
bombarded constantly. I think every promise from every politician, every commercial that comes on your
streaming service is all designed to tell you, Hey, if you get richer, better looking, if you get more control,
if you have a better persona, if you have more education, you'll have everything you ever want.
No, you won't, but it is available to you and it is available to you right now.
Thank you so much for those awesome words of wisdom. And I thank you so much for coming on here
today, Cory.
Thank you.
And remember, we do new episodes every week on Wednesday, and I look forward to having you join me then.
